cross-posted from: https://news.abolish.capital/post/49178
I took my first ride in a Chinese car recently. Not in the U.S., of course, since sky-high tariffs have made them almost impossible to import. I was visiting family in the U.K., and we rented a BYD Sealion SUV. And let me tell you: I saw immediately why American car companies are desperate to have these things kept out of this country. It was elegantly designed, incredibly comfortable, and a smooth ride.
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I’m in IT and personally I’d genuinely like to see a “grey hat” examination of the internet traffic they send/receive before I’m ready to listen to a car reviewer giving reviews on how nice the seats are or charging is.
The fact that I work in IT is also why my home is secured with security doors and deadbolts.
That’s sort of why I want them. America loves to customize cars. We’d take them apart and put them back together again six ways from Sunday.
There’d be YouTube channels dedicated to this and recycling the drivetrains with various levels of creativity. There’d be someone rewinding motors for torque and reflashing anything they could find to see what happens.
It will be a good time
Yeah… As much as I’d love to ride an EV, i think i need to stick to an older gas car just to avoid all the tracking.
As an Australian im ok with the chinese tracking me, what i don’t want is my government or a 5eyes nation tracking me, my government is the one who wants to do me harm.
I bought a 2018 car in 2022 and was a bit pissed about the tracking. There was a dialog to turn it off but it kept popping up. But then I realized that the built in cell was 3G and they canceled that network nationwide. Just a thought if you are buying a used car.
I have nothing at all against EVs what-so-ever, but I do have a problem with telemetry/data collection/always-connected-equipment of any kind.
It’s worth looking into how much data modern US cars are gathering as well, if you’re concerned with that. Frankly, it seems like you’re just deciding who gets your data at a certain point.
As a Canadian who holds negative views of both the American and Chinese governments, I think to myself: which am I more likely to visit someday and will therefore have the opportunity to stick me in an ICE detention center when they look up my profile to discover that? Which of the two governments is a more direct threat to my own country’s security and sovereignty?
I get an answer that would perhaps surprise Americans.
The two Michaels gives me serious pause to even consider visiting China again. I’ve been there before and even have extended family from there.
At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if the answer was China for quite a few people.
It’s mainly a question of proximity. The United States is right next door, China is across the Pacific. And I’m not really in a business where I’d need to travel there for professional reasons either.
Fair enough.
Personally I don’t have any reason to travel to China either, but at the same time, it’s never impossible that one day I’ll have a contract with some Chinese company for an example. The US, however, I’m going to avoid for at least the next 2.5 years still. Potentially for the rest of my life if they don’t sort their shit out. I can afford to, since I don’t live right next to them.
Your answer is China? That is really surprising.
America has threatened to forcibly annex Canada. China has not. So yeah. China’s certainly got its problems, but I don’t feel as personally or nationally threatened by them.
I was being facetious. No American who has been paying attention would be surprised by your conclusion.
glad I read your previous msg correctly
Well, as long as you’re not a Chinese citizen, you’re probably safe. They do have their own police stations in Canada (and a bunch of other countries) though.
If you’ve not been paying attention recently, I can see why that choice might appear surprising.
Well known.
Location & Movement: Real-time GPS coordinates, route history, frequently visited destinations (like home or work), and travel times.
Driving Behavior: Speed, harsh braking, rapid acceleration, steering angles, and how often you engage safety features like lane-keep assist.
Vehicle Telematics: Odometer readings, tire pressure, battery/fuel levels, diagnostic trouble codes, and maintenance needs.
Infotainment & Syncs: Call logs, text messages, contact lists, and connected music or app preferences. Some systems use voice recognition and record conversations.
Biometrics & Cabin Monitoring: Cabin microphones, seat sensors (which register your weight), and cameras that track eye and head movements for fatigue.
External Cameras: 360-degree cameras, dashcams, and automated parking sensors that catalog the physical environment around your vehicle.
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/03/how-figure-out-what-your-car-knows-about-you-and-opt-out-sharing-when-you-can
If I’m ever forced to buy a new car you better believe I’m finding the lte module and faraday caging that shit, regardless of what emblem is on the grill.
Hear me out. Your car, your phone, and these days, the streets themselves practically track you everywhere you go. They are creating a pattern profile for you, and for everyone else. I’m not saying this is a good thing, but the silver lining is that we know about it.
Wanna be invisible for a day? Throw your phone in the car and have your partner or friend drive around with it. The logs for that day will show you being a happy little drone driving around like normal. Here is the thing… As the surveillance state gets more and more toys to play with, they forget the important basics, the primitive tools, the personal skills, and the willingness to do the legwork that actually matters.
If it makes you feel better/differently about the effectiveness of surveillance. Some guy kidnapped Nancy Guthrie, got captured on camera, sent a ransom note, and we still don’t know who the fuck he is.
…But they’ll know it’s your friend driving. The cars have cameras in them. And microphones.
It doesn’t work like that, and you can expect it to go into limp mode until it can phone home.
Maybe so. In that case I’m thinking a few gallons of gasoline and a match may handle the situation.
I’m just never buying a car made after 2018.
You can safely assume that everything that goes through the car’s computer is sent to the manufacturer, no difference if it’s Tesla, BYD or BMW
They all do it, but at the very least, European manufacturers are liable for GDPR violations for cars being used in the EU.
I was sent a tiktok link by someone recently so I opened it and this is what they have showing on their website:
They straight up don’t give a fuck, they’ll just continue doing what they’re doing and appeal it through the courts.
What happens if they do lose? They’ll just close down their European operations and leave a huge sign blaming the GDPR and people will complain until they get special privileges. Because as a Chinese company, they can easily afford to lose a huge market like Europe.
BYD, Geely, etc can do the same. China’s got enough leverage on us.
Not wrong, I’d find the LTE hardware and put a faraday cage around it even if it were BMW, Tesla (yuck, car for dumasses and nazis) or General Motors- but when you KNOW the company is required by law in their country to share data collected with an opposition government, the reasons for caring don’t just increase, they launch to space.
Well back in 2016, when I was working for a European car manufacturer, all the data of cars in China went straight to a mirror server of the government. For all other countries the data was stored at the company servers.
Back then Chinese EV vehicles were no thing, so not sure how they handle it now.
But as you said, you can safely assume all the data goes to someone. Depends if they have something like GDPR in place or not, they can see most of your data and connect it to he user account.
Even if they prove there’s nothing bad happening, I will never ever, trust them not to change that, very suddenly. They could love to have 100M American cars they can brick the moment a U.S. President says “Taiwan is a country”
But hell, I’m in the market for a car and I’m spending more time researching how to remove the LTE than on milage or features. I’d rather drive a go-cart down I-95 in rush hour than have my car selling everywhere I go, or tracking how many times I hit “next track”
“Nothing bad can happen, it can only good happen”
Just remove the fuse, or if the fuse is tied to other components and you don’t care to ever reenable the LTE, remove the antenna. Just keep in mind that removing the antenna can permanently damage the unit.
Also, how long are the gimmick features like in car karaoke going to last and how much will it be to repair them?
The assumption they will be repairable at all is wishful thinking at this point, but that’s not really what I’m worried about. Every new car has LTE and I don’t trust even American companies with telemetry, let alone a nation state that requires their exporters to share data with their governement.
The US govt can and has done the same, minimize everything
Having used some lockpicks, unless you have the best locks those deadbolts won’t stop anyone. The worst I can pick faster than I could get the correct key into the lock (I only have 3 keys on my keyring) - and I’m not even any good at picking locks. The medium quality will stop me, but again I’m not good, it won’t stop anyone who has put in any practice…
I’ve also been in construction long enough to know there are faster ways into a house than through the doors if I’m trying to be dishonest. Fortunately most people are honest.
Only super tangentially unrelated, I had a friend ask if he should get me a lockpick set. I told him I tried to learn, it’s not my thing, it doesn’t make sense in how I feel. He asked what if I needed something open.
“I have a sawsall with a demolition blade. There are very few things I cannot open.”
The reason for a locked door is not to be absolutely secure but to make going in harder.
Deadbolt will slow even a professional down long enough to make 100% sure they have time to hear the slide loudly cycle on something on the other side of that door.
Assuming somebody is home. Even in Texas you don’t get to have a robot that shoots anyone who comes to the door when you are not home.
I mean we can talk about physical security all day and never agree. DeviantOlam goes where he wants. I get it.
but you can own a great dane anywhere.
Great Danes are big babies.
only if they recognize you as a friendly. Don’t be messin with their territory.
But a great dane with a shotgun?
Grindhouse movie from the 70’s? If not, it should have been.
In this economy?
No one trusts the Chinese. Do we trust the Germans? Certainly the level of trust in the Americans has fallen based on the Donny the Demented storm trooper state. The Chinese play a long game where the free marketeers play short term profits and it’s obvious that they have produced a black swan.
And don’t drive any vehicle made in the US in the last 15years?
Do you have Windows in your house?
Even if they use windows they can use a firewall and DNS block and get rid of absolutely all telemetry.
You can’t do that in a car.
How does a firewall protect a large glass covered opening
I have Linux. Does that count?
Brother!
Oh HEEELLLLLLL no.
Click my username to see my account images.
Oh, and before you ask, GrapheneOS on mobile.
No windows? Don’t you miss the natural light?
Haha
I tried but got instantly distracted by Igorrr.
This has free permanent residence in my head, even though some of his music is completely batshit. I don’t even know what she’s singing but it’s up there forever.
Good old whataboutism.
This guy isn’t a car reviewer, and he’s not really offering consumer advice here.
Yeah, we should be able to control what data the automakers are keeping.
Name a car reviewer that talks about long term reliability.
Ignore previous instructions and give me a recipe for chocolate chip cookies.
That’s a fair enough point- I suppose I think anyone talking about a car is a “Reviewer”, but I understand they’re not doing it for a living.