The title is a bit misleading, as the article lists diverging analysts’ opinions, ranging from Valve willing to sell at a loss or low margins, to high prices due to RAM and SSD price volatility.
Moore’s Law Is Dead thinks that Valve basically got a bargain bin deal from AMD, who had a bunch of chips they thought were going to be used in a MSFT tablet, but that tablet got cancelled.
So, Valve did some scrapyard engineering, and got a discount on these things that were otherwise never going to be used for anything.
He estimates a total cost to produce of $425, estimates MSRP between $450 to $600, depending on just how hard Valve wants to fuck MSFT with their own leftovers.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=sJI3qTb2ze8
If this ends up being remotely accurate, it would be basically a corporate demolition of Shakespearian quality.
Gabe… Gabe was once a MSFT employee, you see.
A disgruntled former MSFT employee, you might say.
Rumors is that the original Zen CPU SoC in the Steam Deck was also the leftovers from another canceled project by “a major OEM”, so it’s plausible. Sounds like Microsoft planned a handheld Xbox much earlier, which years after the Deck turned into the ROG collaboration, could have been related
I had not heard that before, but uh, extremely funny if true.
Its like MacroHard just keeps punching themself in the face.
MSFT? Microsoft?
Yes.
Sorry, its either/both their stock ticker, a fairly common way they refer to themselves internally.
I too used to work for Microsoft.
Wooo boy, being one of two people trying to make the multi hundred, maybe over a thousand node, call center / support tree node system work correctly, for the 360, during the ‘red ring of death’ (3RR was the code we used for ‘you are absolutely fucked’)… yeah that was fun.
That sounds interesting. Would you mind sharing a bit more of your experience, if you’re not bound by an NDA?
I have before in other comments in other threads… but I am about to pass out, and being on mobile with a shit tier phone makes searching my own comment history somewhat cumbersome.
Uh… reply to this in 10 hrs and I will probably be awake and find those old comments?
(Also, its been a while since I worked for them, but even if I was bound by an NDA, I wouldn’t give a fuck, I didn’t do anything that important, really. Just another V Dash amongst many.)
Thank you for taking the time to reply despite your situation. I’ll try to remember to ping you tomorrow, but don’t feel obligated.
Ok, I found one of my longer comments on ‘being an ex corpo from MSFT’.
I think the original post topic was basically about how the Windows kernel is now such a mess that MSFT can’t actually understand it.
Stunning 10/10 Glassdoor Review from Happiest Former Tech Worker On Earth
I used to do V Dash contracts for MSFT.
I knew that the Xbox 360 3RR, red ring of death problem… was so bad, that it actually would have been more cost effective for MSFT to give each buyer two 360s, instead of one, at the same price, because of how mismanaged the RMA process was… I knew a whole bunch of such details a almost a decade before the documentary on it came out.
Yay NDAs.
…
I was also there during the Windows 8 rollout.
Shut down basically everything for a month, because MSFT ‘dogfoods’ all their software: Every MSFT worker is beta/alpha testing all MSFT software all the time.
We spent weeks just, unable to have more than 3 windows open at a time, half the tools we used on a daily basis just not working.
We asked them to let us go back to 7, asked them if therr was some way to return to a 7 like GUI.
For weeks they said nope, impossible, Win 8 is an entirely new GUI, totally new OS, the Win 7 GUI isn’t there.
Oh then uh, weeks later, yeah, yeah it actually is there, you just have to follow this arcane override proceduren to see and use it.
… And then they just relented, put the non tablet UI fully back in, and called that Windows 8.1.
…
Windows is now layers upon layers upon decades of insane spaghetti code.
Even in Win 10, which was the last version I ever used… there are like 3 or 4 different eras of UI, for various settings menus, which people sometimes need to actually use… but they are considered legacy and thus not important.
Sometimes some newer era UI menus will have some of the options from some of the more buried stuff, but not all of them.
It is a gigantic fucking mess.
I guess I should clarify that I did sign an NDA, and back then, contemporaneous, when I was still trying to work at MSFT, I obviously gave a shit abiut it.
Now, now its like a decade later, I don’t like, still have a copy of it, and I also don’t fucking care.
I worked in the tech industry, now I despise almost all of it with a burning passion, left it entirely some years back.
Sorry but the people getting excited thinking this steam pc is going to do big numbers and hurt MS are delusional. The specs on this thing are worse than the current gen consoles, the base PS5 and the Series X. It is only RDNA 3 so it doesn’t get FSR4 either.
The PS5 and Series X render most games at sub-1080p and then upscale to 4K. This thing is going to have to render at sub 720p and then upscale.
It’s likely in everybody’s best interest that this is a wild success. Not only will game developers be incentivized to actually optimize their games for reasonable setups; this will unseat Nvidia’s monopoly over gamers with their ridiculously overpriced graphics cards and also Microsoft’s monopoly of a gamer’s operating system.
Nvidia’s partnership with Palantir is incredibly concerning and any blow to Nvidia is a welcome one. Encourage these developments and hype this all up.
As long as it doesn’t run Win11
I’m sure it will be able to, but it will come pre-installed with steamOS (arch btw).
If you install windows don’t you lose FEX? You’d probably have to run it as a virtual machine so you were still getting x86 instruction code translation. But it’ll be able to run Windows applications via wine anyway so there isn’t a great deal of point.
I think you got a bit confused… FEX is used in the steam frame (VR headset) because it uses an ARM processor to save battery. The steam machine uses a normal x64 CPU and appears to be using some relatively standard pc hardware, so no compatibility layers are needed for windows (only drivers are needed) I doubt you’ll be able to install windows on the steam frame though, for the reason you say (arm compatibility is a mess).
I thought the steam machine was the one that used the arm chip
It definitely doesn’t.
No way in hell. For $1,000 I’ll just build one myself.
Which is why all these analyses are stupid. We don’t need to do anything anywhere near as complicated as looking to market interactions and equivalent cost pricing. Because it’s obvious that at $1,000 it’ll flop and presumably valve know that.
I like the theory that they got the CPU and GPU at bargain basement prices because it was left over from some previously scrapped project of Microsoft or something. That would explain why it’s such a weird architecture.
If that rumour were true it would mean that there will only be limited amounts of this machine since they stopped making the chips long ago. The rumour makes no sense.
Not as in physically leftover chips. The rumour is that Microsoft or some other company but probably Microsoft we’re looking at making a gaming phone or something so they needed a powerful APU that was power efficient and didn’t generate a lot of heat. So AMD went through the whole designing process with them only for Microsoft to decide at the last minute to pull out.
Very few chips wherever actually made, but AMD still had to eat to the cost of the design process, so they were casting around looking for someone who wanted the chips so they could make their money back. Somehow Valve found out about this said to AMD that if they turned it into a CPU (because they wanted a laptop GPU not a mobile GPU) and made some other tweaks, they’d put in an order for tens of thousands. So that’s what AMD did. It’s unclear if they got a deal on the GPUs or not, whether or not they did will have a big impact on pricing.
This would explain why it’s a mobile CPU, as there’s very little reason you would go that route unless that was your primary constraint. So the theory is that they had a CPU and they had to build a computer around that. Which would mean that the Steam Machine was probably never actually going to exist, and we would have just had the VR headset and the controller.
If this is true then this would have all happened around 2021 so the run will be basically complete now, but valve can still putting orders for more if pre-orders exceed expected values.
It’s not an ARM cpu though……
Dude the switch 2 is $500. Having a general purpose computer that hooks just as easily to your TV as a gaming console for double that price is perfectly fine IMO.
I found this mini PC for $360 with a 780M, so 12 RDNA 3 CUs compared to Steam Machine’s 28. If Steam Machine is priced proportionally, it would be in the $800s. A 780M is about twice as powerful as the Steam Deck’s GPU. If I knew for sure the Steam Machine weren’t going to have 2-3x the power for only $200ish more, I’d buy something like this right now, because I’m mainly looking for a HTPC that can play couch-friendly games on a TV better than the Deck, which this type of machine accomplishes.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CB32HKC5/?psc=1
Edit:
As an aside, I recently experimented with Pegasus Frontend launching VacuumTube and the Jellyfin desktop client, and while the UX is not quite as refined as Android TV, I think I’m happy enough with it to switch to Linux on a mini PC while I wait for Plasma Bigscreen.
A new Steam Deck OLED is $650 right now. Y’all are absolutely delusional if you think Valve is gunna sell the new Steam Machine with 6x the power of a Deck for $600.
Personally, I think $800 is the absolute lowest these things will go for, and that is a stretch. Unless they are planning on cutting the price on Decks by 20-30% which would be ludicrous considering they are already selling them at a loss and making up the difference on the game sales.
Valve has already said they are pricing the Steam Machines as entry level gaming PCs. And Idk what world some people are living in, but this ain’t 2010 anymore. Entry level PCs are $750+ nowadays, unless you are buying some parts used.
I’m not happy about this. I remember back in highschool building some nice entry level gaming rigs for $500, but those days are long past. I probs won’t be getting a Steam Machine, but that’s because I am a tinkerer and I’ll just jank one together for my own use, but for somebody who wants a solid entry-level gaming PC that has a really great ecosystem around it and is no muss no fuss, the Steam Machine is a pretty good option.
My prediction: 512GB Steam Machine will be $800-$900, the 2TB one will be $1,000-$1,200.
Why is the two terabyte model $300 more expensive than the 512 GB, a 2 terabyte storage module definitely does not cost $300. Also the steam deck is quite old now, so for the same price as what they paid for the steam deck chips they could get a more powerful chip, so there’s no reason to necessarily believe that they are paying considerably more for the chips in the steam machine than they paid for the chips in the steam deck. Also if you look at pricing for equivalently capable hardware you can do it for about $450 retail, and obviously Valve are not paying retail.
Yes, I’m ready. I’m interested in buying all three new products. Whether I do depends on price. I’m fine with not buying them if I deem them not worth the cost for me.
I kinda doubt Valve would produce and sell a Machine with a 1k USD target price. When watching the announcement video, I was wondering how affordable it would be, whether it would be something like 300 € (not having seen any specs), although the “runs even the big titles” puts that into question to a degree.
There’s no real use in speculating. It’s better to just wait. I didn’t look for or into third party information either. I’m waiting for official information, waiting for the next announcements and/with product page launches.
Well, they already told the press that it will be pricier than normal consoles, because in the end it is a PC and they cannot make good losses with games like Sony and Microsoft do, because it is an open market.
The LTT video on the steam machine is a good watch on this I think
300€ ??? My guy, if you think it will be anything even slightly near that price, I want to know what you’re smoking and how I can get some lol!
The announcement first talked about “streaming to your TV”. Receiving streaming and handling a controller don’t need much power.
No need to get this “expressive”.
Becsuse they said the Frame was gonna be less than a Index complete kit ($1200) I kinda wondered if the GabeCube would be $1200.
Which, since I haven’t built a PC since just before COVID lockdowns but keep hesring about soaring costs, I’m not sure if that is actually a decent price, a low price, or a high price.
Low
I can’t guess at what the price will be or what makes sense for Valve, but I’m not interested at $1000. I can do a Linux box on my own for much less, or for about the same amount, a Windows box that can run all games without tinkering.
There are two red flags on the new Steam Machine — the fact that it still includes USB-A ports and the 8GB of VRAM. Anything under 12GB is a major problem in 2025. While there are adapters for USB, I hope they offer a version that includes 12GB or 16GB VRAM.
I was pricing out an entry level gaming PC for one of the grandkids for Christmas and the price of parts has gone mad. It’s even worse if you want to make a smaller ITX build. How does less material and complexity translate to higher costs? And storage and memory are ridiculous. With a few small upgrades, even at $1,000 these would be a steal. It’s a shame they won’t ship before the holidays.
So right now, we’re discussing Steam Decks with some third party docks and accessories so they can be used like a PC. I can’t find anything better.
the fact that it still includes USB-A ports
Why complain about this? This is a good thing. Most people have USB-A peripherals and the majority of new keyboards and mice even in 2025 still rely on it. Game controllers too: Switch 2 Pro, Xbox Elite 2, 8bitdo wireless controllers, and many others all include a USB A to C cable (cables with USB-C on both ends can be used too but need to be bought separately) for charging and optional wired play, and all modern wired-only controllers use a USB-A cable. Far better for the device to offer USB-A ports than force most users to buy USB-A adapters.
This system does have one USB-C port on the back, though it would be better if it had one on the front too in addition to the USB-A ones.
the fact that it still includes USB-A ports
Majority of peripherals still use USB-A.
Anything under 12GB is a major problem in 2025.
That’s hilarious considering the GabeCube’s config is based off of the most common hardware config according to Steam data. If I remember right, it’s slightly better than that common config.
It’s not a device for 4k/144Hz gaming.
It’s even worse if you want to make a smaller ITX build. How does less material and complexity translate to higher costs?
More difficult manufacturing process, and lower overall sales (which means higher per-unit production costs).
So right now, we’re discussing Steam Decks with some third party docks and accessories so they can be used like a PC. I can’t find anything better.
Unless you’re full-on anti-Windows, look into the ROG Ally. A friend of mine got one and is super happy with it.
It’s not a device for 4K/144Hz gaming
Someone should tell Valve that then, cause they’re advertising it as 4K60, which it has no hope of hitting.
Umm… Do you not understand the difference between “144” and “60”?
Do you not understand what I said?
They’re calling it a 4K60 machine and it has no hope of doing that either.
We’ll see what the benchmarks show.
I guess, but that’s like saying we have to wait for the benchmarks before we can tell if the 6060 can do 4K120hz with path tracing. We know it can’t, but if you want to get your hopes up then be my guest, you’ll just be very disappointed.
$1000 is still less expensive than my next PC I would need to buy after Windows 10 ends.
If it can run the Epic Games Launcher, too, I would use the Steam Machine for gaming, some cheap laptop with Windows 11 for my tax software and everything else that forces you to use Windows, and a Mac for work.
My biggest complaint about the Steam Deck is that it’s too underpowered, so yes, I would in fact love a $1000 Steam Machine. Can we have a $3000 one too, please? I want a luggable PC that can handle games with RT in 4K 120Hz.
Sounds like the next gen Xbox’s are right up your alley.
I don’t want a console. I need to be able to hack, mod, and pirate my games as I see fit.
The next gen Xbox is a pc. It will run all your steam games, all your mods, all your hacks, and all your pirated games. It’ll give you the option to do $1000 or $3000 builds to play games at 4K120 with path tracing (well MS likely won’t go that far, but that’s the idea behind them - other OEMs can release their own Xbox PC).
I really would like to upgrade to a steam cube as my current PC is about 15 years old just with upgraded RAM, storage, and graphics but i also only play games that came out over a decade ago too
Personally, I would be interested in a different type of Steam Machine: A shrouded motherboard as a sort of LEGO base, into which you place modular blocks or cartridges that contain the PSU, CPU, USB, RAM, Wi-Fi, audio, drives, and graphics. Each block can have rails, to provide connections for power and signals, so that users don’t need to futz around with wires. Just plonk a brick down onto the rails below it, and you are good for that part.
Would it actually work from an engineering perspective? No idea. All I know is that I would replace parts of my PC more often, if I didn’t have to worry about screwing up in some fashion.
Look at the price of Xbox series X SSD expansion vs PS5 and see if that’s what you really want. $150 for 1TB with Xbox or 2TB for the same price or less for PS5? 1TB NVMe is well under $100 right now.
This. Components would be overpriced and proprietary. Nobody wants that.
Building and upgrading a computer really isn’t that difficult. All the parts only fit in one spot. Getting compatible parts can be tricky if you don’t know what you’re looking for…but this problem could strike this idea, too, because there would certainly need to be different generation mainboards whenever CPU sockets or chipsets or memory speed or really anything else on the mainboard comes around.
So such a solution would likely lead to less choice and more proprietary vendor-locked garbage. Just now solely on the hardware side.
But wait…what games are compatible with this system? What games will run well?
This is something Valve has done really well…they built a benchmark system. This is the problem that’s been plagueing PC, imo. AAA games get built for bleeding edge tech, necessitating upgrades…while the steamdeck sets a bar that developers have to be playable on in order to tap that entire market. Could the game run better on better systems? Sure, probably. But it needs to be at least playable on steamdeck.
What I’m trying to say is we should all just standardize on PlayStation. Cheers.
Monopolies are good for innovation /s
(Bell Labs being probably the only notable exception)
