Lithium isn’t quite like gold. It is not rare at all. The news isn’t that it is there, the news is that someone has found a place where it is relatively easy to dig, and lots of it.
In only a few years, most batteries will be made without lithium anyway.
In only a few years, most batteries will be made without lithium anyway.
Really depends on the use case. Grid-scale storage? Yeah, there’s better chemistries for that. Cars? We’re probably going to see a mix of chemistries in the same battery packs to tailor use case. In personal electronics? No, lithium will remain king
Ehh… Lithium batteries are going to be around for quite a while even if sodium ion batteries take off. It’s just more energy dense than sodium ion, so it’s always going to be better for things like portable electronics.
Sodium ion might take over the market for heavier batteries like stationary power banks.
Consult a periodic table. Lithium will always out perform sodium. Sodium batteries only exist because lithium costs more, but these large deposits are being found worldwide every few months and lithium will drop in price as a commodity. At some point, recycling will require much less new lithium to be mined.
Wood is cheaper than steel. Which apparently is the most important way to be better in. But I wouldn’t build a skyscraper out of it.
Saying that energy density is not important in energy storage technology is as stupid as saying that material strength is not important in building materials.
Yes. Chinese manufacturers are using sodium batteries in some low-range cheap city-cars, too. But fundamentally there is less energy storage in a charged sodium atom than a charged lithium atom so it seems sodium batteries must always be bigger and heavier than equivalent-capacity lithium batteries.
But fundamentally there is less energy storage in a charged sodium atom than a charged lithium atom so it seems sodium batteries must always be bigger and heavier than equivalent-capacity lithium batteries.
Well the battery chemistry will always include much more than just the loose charge carrier of Na+ or Li+ or whatever cation floating around. It’s always a suitable cathode material made from other elements, too. Lithium ion batteries in cars today have cathodes mostly of high performance lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxides (NMC) or cheaper/more stable lithium iron phosphate (LFP).
The dominant sodium ion chemistry hitting mass production now uses Prussian Blue Analogues for the cathode (made from a 3d matrix out of sodium, plus a metal like iron/manganese/nickel, plus cyanide made from carbon and nitrogen).
Plus even separately from the raw chemistry of the battery, built in mechanisms for durability or longevity or charge cycles or thermal management or safety or other material properties may change the overall weight of the battery for any particular performance characteristics.
In the end, the performance of the entire battery is what matters, and lithium’s head start in less weight per cation may one day be overcome if the overall materials involved can be lighter in some as-yet commercialized sodium ion chemistry.
That doesn’t stop sodium batteries from being fundamentally bigger and heavier than lithium batteries for the same capacity. That just means the tradeoff can be more worth it in some regions
Not necessarily bad for cars. Some vehicles can use just sodium batteries. Some companies are looking at making battery packs with mixed cell types in different ratios to get a best of both worlds for their use case. Sodium sucks for personal electronics though
Would be hilarious if China figured out efficient electrolysis and powered all their stuff using hydrogen but our huge and inefficient data centers needed all of our fresh water.
Lithium isn’t quite like gold. It is not rare at all. The news isn’t that it is there, the news is that someone has found a place where it is relatively easy to dig, and lots of it.
In only a few years, most batteries will be made without lithium anyway.
Really depends on the use case. Grid-scale storage? Yeah, there’s better chemistries for that. Cars? We’re probably going to see a mix of chemistries in the same battery packs to tailor use case. In personal electronics? No, lithium will remain king
More likely that most batteries are made from lithium recycled from old batteries rather than mined lithium.
Citation needed.
Sodium-ion and maaaaybe iron are promising, with sodium-ion making the most headway.
https://batterycouncil.org/battery-facts-and-applications/about-sodium-batteries/
Not quite widely commercially available yet, but I wouldn’t invest heavily in lithium is it was me.
Ehh… Lithium batteries are going to be around for quite a while even if sodium ion batteries take off. It’s just more energy dense than sodium ion, so it’s always going to be better for things like portable electronics.
Sodium ion might take over the market for heavier batteries like stationary power banks.
Consult a periodic table. Lithium will always out perform sodium. Sodium batteries only exist because lithium costs more, but these large deposits are being found worldwide every few months and lithium will drop in price as a commodity. At some point, recycling will require much less new lithium to be mined.
Sodium is better in the more important ways than lithium.
Either state WTF you are talking about or find a better way to waste people’s time.
I wrote it on other comments. I’m not here to summarize the internet for you.
Fair, but how about you instead justify your point? That seems like a more reasonable ask.
I’m not here to aggregate your content for you.
This is HIGHLY dependent on use case
Wood is cheaper than steel. Which apparently is the most important way to be better in. But I wouldn’t build a skyscraper out of it.
Saying that energy density is not important in energy storage technology is as stupid as saying that material strength is not important in building materials.
You know there are skyscrapers built out of wood, right? And they’re kind of awesome.
I searched for “tallest wooden building” there actually is a list in wikipedia of the tallest buildings.
The tallest of the list is not even a building, it’s a radio tower. At ~110m.
The closest city to me that has a skyscraper has a single skyscraper, and it is >150m tall.
I would not build a skyscraper out of wood.
Yes you may quote me, if you really need it.
Or leave it. For reasonable people, it is obvious anyway.
I already quoted you. I don’t need your permission to do it.
If you’re not gonna even try to defend your position you’re just spreading misinformation.
LMAO
Have you not been paying attention to the development of sodium batteries? They are already surpassing LithIon batteries in energy density and cost.
Cost, yes, energy density, very much no.
So good for grid storage, bad for vehicles?
And awful for phones
Yes. Chinese manufacturers are using sodium batteries in some low-range cheap city-cars, too. But fundamentally there is less energy storage in a charged sodium atom than a charged lithium atom so it seems sodium batteries must always be bigger and heavier than equivalent-capacity lithium batteries.
Well the battery chemistry will always include much more than just the loose charge carrier of Na+ or Li+ or whatever cation floating around. It’s always a suitable cathode material made from other elements, too. Lithium ion batteries in cars today have cathodes mostly of high performance lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxides (NMC) or cheaper/more stable lithium iron phosphate (LFP).
The dominant sodium ion chemistry hitting mass production now uses Prussian Blue Analogues for the cathode (made from a 3d matrix out of sodium, plus a metal like iron/manganese/nickel, plus cyanide made from carbon and nitrogen).
Plus even separately from the raw chemistry of the battery, built in mechanisms for durability or longevity or charge cycles or thermal management or safety or other material properties may change the overall weight of the battery for any particular performance characteristics.
In the end, the performance of the entire battery is what matters, and lithium’s head start in less weight per cation may one day be overcome if the overall materials involved can be lighter in some as-yet commercialized sodium ion chemistry.
Not exactly, they work better in cold temps for northern countries.
That doesn’t stop sodium batteries from being fundamentally bigger and heavier than lithium batteries for the same capacity. That just means the tradeoff can be more worth it in some regions
Not necessarily bad for cars. Some vehicles can use just sodium batteries. Some companies are looking at making battery packs with mixed cell types in different ratios to get a best of both worlds for their use case. Sodium sucks for personal electronics though
Would be hilarious if China figured out efficient electrolysis and powered all their stuff using hydrogen but our huge and inefficient data centers needed all of our fresh water.
Hilarious. 😒
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_1004
North sea windmills will be generating hydrogen from wind electricity.